Ten Questions to ... Beth and Matt (A Cloud of Ravens)

 Brooklyn duo A Cloud of Ravens have continued their meteoric rise in the gothic/darkwave scene this year with the release of critically-acclaimed sophomore album Another Kind of Midnight (on seminal imprint Cleopatra Records), from which a second video single, the excellent Tithes and Offerings, will be released next week (27^th April).

 

After a debut single towards the end of 2018, the band first gained major traction the following year, first with the Sacred Hearts EP, which featured the iconic track Alone In Your Dark, and which received a rave review from influential scene critic Michelle “Skullgirdle” Reich on the equally essential Obscura Undead website. This was followed by debut album In The Wicked Hours, which drew similarly enthusiastic reviews which summed up the project’s unique and broad appeal: Cult Faction correctly noted that "A Cloud of Ravens manages to harness all of the identifying touchstones of gothic/darkwave without sounding especially like any other act," whilst Bandcamp reviewers (equally appositely) variously commented that “each track is its own tile of a modern goth mosaic”, that the “depth of the entire album is intoxicating” and that the release was “as lilting as it is powerful”.

 Whilst many otherwise excellent gothic/darkwave acts fall down in some small way or another – having weak vocals, being over-derivative, being poorly produced, or relying on one-dimensional song structures, for example – here was a project with a great name, image, sound and songs, so it came as little surprise that Cleopatra Records expressed an interest in releasing the follow-up, Another Kind of Midnight which duly came out in March of this year.

 

Teaser single When It Comes, which was released prior to the album earlier this year, was a powerful statement of intent, which I reviewed at the time as “weirdly making me think of goth-era Damned embarking on a grunge phase”, which again highlights the difficulty of pigeonholing A Cloud of Ravens’ distinctive sound.

The album showcases once more singer/guitarist Matt McIntosh’s qualities both as a musician and as a songwriter with ten tracks with a winning combination of powerfully melodic choruses driven by bassist Beth Narducci and dark atmospheric verses with judicious layers of synths added to a more traditionally gothic rock mix. Well-respected scene reviewer Ken Magerman of Sounds and Shadows sums up the band’s appeal with this succinct appraisal: “This record is a perfect blend of the homage to the past and the modern construction of the future. Well deep power and resonant vocals carry these stalking shadow woven songs.”

Basically, it’s one of those albums where you mentally prepare for the next track being less good than the previous epic, only to constantly have your expectations confounded as a different avenue is explored in the same depth, and pretty much every track here could be released as a single, making A Cloud of Ravens one of the bands on the scene with the most potential to cross over to a more mainstream audience.

Keen to discover more about the band’s origins and motivations, I contacted Beth and Matt and was delighted and grateful when they not only agreed to an interview but returned (in record time) detailed answers which give further insight into this immensely enjoyable project.

 

A Cloud of Ravens’ music can be purchased via Bandcamp and other retailers.

 

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NVL:  You guys are based in Brooklyn, which to goths worldwide conjures up images of the iconic Brooklyn Bridge, and to the modern scene also means Bootblacks but more historically the borough is invariably associated with the “drab four”. Do you feel that there is a Type O Negative influence on your music, with the marriage of melody and power (they were once famously described as “The Beatles meets Black Sabbath”), or in Matt’s accentuation of certain consonants in the sotto voce verse sections of some of your songs? Is there any distinct Brooklyn influence in your sound?

 Matt: I’m not sure if Brooklyn has a defining sound, but it’s hard not to be creatively inspired by the visual history of New York City; from the cobblestone streets remaining in lower Manhattan, to, as you mentioned, the austere span of the Brooklyn Bridge, and the dark waters beneath it. You can feel it and see it everywhere as a tangible thing. Bootblacks are amazing and capture the energy of the city so well. We love Thin Skies, and really, all of their output.

Beth: Two other bands that come to mind as having captured an era of Brooklyn and lower Manhattan as a sonic landscape are Yeah Yeah Yeahs and Interpol.

 Matt: I was pleasantly surprised when I started seeing a review here and there comparing my tone to Peter Steele’s, though I’m pretty sure his voice is bass, and mine is probably more tenor. While we don’t directly draw from Type O aesthetically, I am a fan, and happy with any likeness. Melody + power is a major component of our process. Peter left a profound mark in BK, and worldwide.

 Beth: Brooklyn is the pulse for me. Having lived in several cities that are considered music hotbeds, Brooklyn certainly has its own very unique energy.

  

NVL: Matt, you spent a couple of decades in straight edge punk/pop-punk projects before gradually going back to your post-punk roots in the past decade, like many other artists on the current scene. Why did it take you so long to work in the gothic genre?

Matt: While I was never actually in any straight edge bands, it was pervasive in the hardcore scene while I was more involved with it. I never really considered any of the stuff I did as pop-punk. It was hardcore and post-hardcore mainly (post-hardcore in the mid-‘90s sense. Not the screamo-metal people now associate). But there is an element of melody and dynamics in past projects that could be construed as pop-adjacent, for sure.

My first band was called Pagan Dead, which was proudly death rock. I was 15-16. As we played more and more hardcore bills, our sound started going more that way. I was an unhappy/angry kid, and becoming further enveloped in hardcore was like an armour for me. Death rock was more introspective, and I needed the pure primitive aggression of hardcore in that moment, which ended up being many years. Over time you develop a better perspective, and see that you aren’t really a victim of your circumstances. All that time I’d been imagining a band like A Cloud of Ravens. Coming full circle has been a rewarding experience. As to why it took as long as it did, I tend to stay put where I feel most comfortable, which is probably a character flaw, but I also believe that things happen when they’re meant to.

  

NVL: Your songs often have a grunge-style structure, with a quiet verse followed by an anthemic chorus, a feature which many bands in the genre struggle with. Do you feel that your punk background has given you an appreciation of the importance of a good chorus, as your songs often have that mix of power and melody which characterized the likes of Bob Mould’s bands (Hüsker Dü and Sugar), or to take a very different example, The Damned in their more goth era?

Matt: Yeah. It’d be a stretch to not credit my background in punk to the creative process with 'Ravens. I try to write in a dynamic that I love to listen to. Gothic, and related genres are often characterized as dour and glum, but there’s a wellspring of power in those dark emotions. If that translates as something anthemic, I’m glad. So much of Another Kind of Midnight addresses the fear, rage and sadness we’ve experienced through the last political cycle, and the ugliness it's unearthed. But staying beneath it can’t be an option. As much as it references that frustration, we hope that it also illustrates our inherent ability, as energetic beings, to transcend that spiritual oppression, and come out whole, and hopefully stronger on the other side of it. It should be said that Beth, with her wealth of music history knowledge, and keen artistic sensibilities, keeps me on my toes. She is beyond integral in the creative process. I also love that you mention Sugar. Copper Blue is one of our favorite albums of the ‘90s. Bob Mould is definitely a hero.

 

NVL: Matt, you currently have a parallel project (Grandeur) with your drummer son, which has also garnered much critical praise. When a new song idea appears in your mind, do you instinctively know which project it would work best for?

Matt: Yes, definitely. I think there’s only been a song or two where it could’ve gone either way. But generally speaking, there is a well-defined delineation between bands. At least in my mind. Grandeur sticks its big toe into so many things; darkwave, synth pop, alternative, dance punk, with subject matter that deals more with our physical world. ACoR is decidedly rooted in traditional Gothic, and speaks more to what we can perceive outside of our five senses and 3D existence. My son James is infinitely more talented than I was at his age, and has his own projects and interests at play, so Grandeur is on the back burner for now. I'm proud of our output, and appreciate you mentioning it.

 

NVL:  From Bela Lugosi’s Dead onwards, Gothic rock has been one of the genres where the bass riff is often the key to the song. Which bass players from the past and current scenes do you most admire, Beth?

Beth: I love a tasteful bass line that sits just behind the beat, concise and minimal. But I also appreciate a player like John Taylor of Duran Duran, who is stylistically flashier, but always hits the right spots with flair. Peter Hook is probably the gold standard for bassists in our chosen genres, His melodies and playing high on the neck were so innovative, and inspired so many. Simon Gallup from the Cure, Andy Rourke of the Smiths, and David Barbarossa of Adam and the Ants are also favorites of mine.

NVL: Having spent many years working in A&R, Beth, is it hard to switch off the commercial and critical mindset and focus purely on creative energy when you’re working Matt’s song ideas up in a studio setting?

Beth: While listening to what we’re doing with ‘Ravens, I don’t hold it up to a contemporary standard. I look at it more in comparison to the records that inspired us, mostly records we grew up with.  We don’t generally clash on creative elements or parts, just the occasional synth tone or drum sound, rather than actual song structure. The commercial-meets-creative aspect comes in with the mixing for me. I get immersed at an almost granular level, as far as competing frequencies and where things sit in an overall mix. It’s important that listeners connect with the vocal and lyrics, and the artist in general is in the forefront. Not just the broader sonics.

 

NVL: With your significant A&R experience, would you say that the scene is exploiting its commercial potential at present, Beth? What do you think would be the best route to get dark alternative music to a wider audience?

Beth: To answer the question frankly, I think there’s further it can go commercially. To quote Alternative Press, “The 2020s are about to get a lot more Goth”. Obviously for some people it never went away, but what’s hopeful is that it seems to be permeating the mainstream, or at least drawing more fans as of late. Some people will like that idea, others not so much. There are constant nods to goth in film and TV placements and fashion brands are always pulling their edgy looks from this scene. I think it’s been a slow-build since the early 2010s, that has grown exponentially in the last few years. The sub genres have adapted and evolved, and subsequently more kids are discovering it.

Some things I’d like to see are more gothic/post punk/darkwave playlists, (Spotify editorial or user generated, on Apple, Amazon Music, etc) and more YT content in general. More places for discovery overall would benefit everyone.

 

NVL:  Living as I do in Scotland, I couldn’t help noticing the Scottish derivation of your surname, Matt. Are you in touch with your Scottish roots, and do you feel any Celtic heritage makes its way into your music?

Matt: I try to be very connected to my Scottish/Celtic heritage. My grandfather was born there, and my roots go back to Selkirk, in the Scottish Borders. I started getting more in touch with it all in my late teens, going to an annual Scottish games festival near where I grew up. I read Anam Cara by John O’Donohue years ago, and it’s affected me spiritually and creatively. That history, gravity and sentiment has undoubtedly had an impact on my expression, and likely always will. There’s a wisdom and lore in the Isles that’s very different than what exists here in the States, and I find both immersive and fascinating.

 

 NVL: Since Poe, ravens have been inextricably connected to goth culture, and the many collective nouns for ravens are uniformly unflattering, with most dictionaries listing “an unkindness of ravens” as the correct appellation. Where did the notion of “a cloud” or ravens come from?

Matt: Ken from Sounds and Shadows called it an “on-the-nose” gothic name, and I guess it is. haha. As an animal totem, the raven is synonymous with magic and mysticism. They’re elusive here in the northeast of North America. I saw one on a rural backroad in upstate Connecticut a few years ago, and it blew me away. I don’t know if that directly informed my naming of the band, but it certainly left an impression. It exuded a palpable energy; singular, majestic, enigmatic. While recording the initial demos for the band, the visual just kind of presented itself. They are so rarely seen, that imagining an entire cloud of them seemed to have such weight and resonance, and fit the mood and energy of those first songs.

 

NVL:  The new album is being released by Cleopatra Records, which is synonymous with gothic music and a sign that a band has reached a certain stage in their journey. How did the link up come about? Did you have any doubts about signing with such an overtly gothic label? Will you be releasing future records on that imprint?

 Matt: We were asked to be on Cleopatra’s Unquiet Grave compilation last year and the relationship kind of grew from there. We signed a one-off deal with the label, which seemed a natural progression for us.

 Beth: One thing that drew us to Cleopatra is that they have catalogs of so many of the artists that we admire and for that reason, people looking to license goth and dark music consider them a go-to. I pitch music for syncs as a part of my company but I feel that they have a depth of contacts and sync relationships that are hugely valuable.

My thanks again to the band for taking the time and trouble to answer my ten questions.